DeRosa Is The Only Character...

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kmkmiller
 
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Re: DeRosa Is The Only Character...

Postby kmkmiller » 22 Jun 2013

and Diane Selwyn herself says she arrived there from Deep River, Ontario, and that is an extension of Betty arriving at LAX. so the only thing I draw from this is that Lynch is trying to build links between what is typically called dream and reality ... but these are not just dream associations... these, as you point out, are narrative associations, one building on the next. awesome catch about DeRosa's lines about her stuff.

consider the meeting between DeRosa and Rita and Betty. There are looks exchanged there, possibly knowing looks. not sure what this will do to your ideas here but consider the possibility that DeRosa knows that is Diane standing right there in front of her all gussied up and fresh faced, but she's pretending not to know Diane. Rita is catching on and they're sizing each other up, and before anything really happens ring ring goes the phone so DeRosa can gracefully get herself out of the situation.

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Xav
 
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Re: DeRosa Is The Only Character...

Postby Xav » 22 Jun 2013

Betty, wait. Wait!
Don't.
No one's home.
Yes?
Diane?
Number 17.
But it said number 12.
I switched apartments with her. She's in 17. It's down at the end, on the left. But she hasn't been around for a few days.
We'll leave her a note.
I'll go with you. She still got some of my stuff. You go ahead. I gotta get that.
- Guess you're not Diane Selwyn.
- Guess I'm not.
There's still no one home, I guess.
- What are you doing?
- Come on, help me in.
Come on, I'll open the front door. No! Come on. Come on!


In the dream:
Ring ring (W12) .
Betty/Rita facing corpse in #17
Knock knock by W12

(at the end of the dream while Diane is awakening)
Diane facing corpse in memory?
Knock knock by W12


In reality ? :
Ring ring (Camilla invites Diane).
Knock knock (old couple)
corpse (Diane becomes a corpse herself)

Broken symmetry, isn't it?

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elijawan
 
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Re: DeRosa Is The Only Character...

Postby elijawan » 22 Jun 2013

I think the broken symmetry is yet another reason that the relationship with Wi12 is so unique and therefore worthy of investigation.

Kmkmiller,I think Wi12 having to answer the phone when she meets Betty and Rita is a product of the Super Ego vs. ID battle that influences how events in the dream are played out (hopefully not changing topic...)

So assume Betty is a projection of Diane, as envisioned by Diane. Wi12 from the dream is a projection of (probably) a former roommate (possibly also lover) as envisioned by Diane. The continuity suggests to me though, that this is an unvarnished and untainted version of Wi12. Diane projecting herself as Betty - a different person - is why Wi12 doesn't recognize Betty. In the dream, Diane is not Diane, so it makes sense that Wi12 doesn't recognize her. The looks exchanged are part of Diane's self delusion (dream) that she is someone else.

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Siku
 
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Re: DeRosa Is The Only Character...

Postby Siku » 22 Jun 2013

So the presence of Wi12 in the dream might be attributed to the superego, but the dreamer refuses to recognise her true status as untarnished/varnished lover, preferring to fixated on the Camilla fantasy.

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Re: DeRosa Is The Only Character...

Postby kmkmiller » 23 Jun 2013

Paper thin psycho babble. LOL!

Kidding aside I'm not the best person to have a Freudian discussion of MD. never read Freud I don't even understand the terms that well.

Also note from my computer hard drive analogy I do not think derosa is a root directory of Rita and Camilla. Maybe ctyankee can discuss this with you.

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Siku
 
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Re: DeRosa Is The Only Character...

Postby Siku » 23 Jun 2013

kmkmiller wrote:..note from my computer hard drive analogy I do not think derosa is a root directory of Rita and Camilla.


Apologies for being dumb but I don't get what you mean here, can you elaborate?

(Also you deleted the post you're referring to so I can't see the analogy anymore :wall:).

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kmkmiller
 
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Re: DeRosa Is The Only Character...

Postby kmkmiller » 24 Jun 2013

Forget the other post then I don't think DeRosa is the really really super secret double real uber real version of Camilla or Rita.

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Re: DeRosa Is The Only Character...

Postby elijawan » 25 Jun 2013

kmkmiller wrote:Forget the other post then I don't think DeRosa is the really really super secret double real uber real version of Camilla or Rita.


Neither do I. I think she's probably just a roommate and the relationship went sour because of Diane's ever more warped sense of why she failed to make it as an actress.

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Re: DeRosa Is The Only Character...

Postby elijawan » 25 Jun 2013

I'm starting to think that the conversation between Dan and Herb is serving a dual purpose. One is serving as a device to introduce the element of dream and fantasy into the movie, and the second purpose is to echo the real life relationship between Wi12 and Diane.

If I place Wi12 in Herb's shoes and Diane in Dan's, I hear Diane making excuses for her shortcomings and her roommate/neighbor saying "come on, really?"
"It's not my fault, there's a man (read forces beyond my control) who's keeping me back, who's controlling things. He's the one that's doing it. None of this is my fault."

Still working on this idea...

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Re: DeRosa Is The Only Character...

Postby Erniesam » 15 Oct 2013

I've read some exellent posts here on the topic of Diane's neighbour / roommate. Recently I've developed a complete analysis of Mulholland DRive in which I finally can place De Rosa / Diane's roommate. This sounds cockey perhaps, but I can place her perfectly when I go about the scenes themselves.

Some here on this thread have suggested that Diane had an affair with De Rosa. I wholeheartedly agree and there are several hints worked out in this movie.

First of, let me explain my approach to Mulholland Drive. I see it as the last 24 hours in the life of a depressed Diane Selwyn. She is depressed because of her sexual abuse (by her father and complicity of her mother) and her "escape" into Hollywood has been a failure, so she is confronted with her trauma again.

So, we first have the dream, than we have daydream which is interrupted by scenes in reality and finally reality, that is her suicide. The dream is the furthest away from reality, but reality keeps creeping in. The daydream is closer to reality and here also reality is creeping in.

What about the neighbour / roommate? I believe that in reality De Rosa was Diane's lover. So note that in the dream, the audition scene, Wally introduces Betty to everyone. He calls them by name AND states their occupation. BUT...when he introduces Betty to Martha Johnson, he only says: "Whom you have met up front." I couldn't place this sentence for a while, but then it hit me: Martha Johnston is the idealized version of De Rosa, just like Betty is of Diane herself! Notice the transition from dream / daydream / reality:

1/ In the dream we hear her roommate's first and surname, while in the daydream we only hear her surname and in reality we don't hear her name at all. It's like this person is being erased from Diane's life, which in REALITY it IS.

2/ The relationship in the dream is good. Notice how sympathetic Martha is towards Betty. In the daydream De Rosa is just being polite and reluctanly willing to help, while in reality Diane and her roommate are quarreling and her roommate has already left.

So, why the sentence: "Whom you have met up front"? That is because Martha / De Rosa is the only person Diane cares about, the only person Diane has a real relationship with. The rest of the people in Hollywood didn't mean anything to Diane, at least, not since her deception in Hollywood. Notice also that we ONLY see Diane and her roommate in reality. In fact, they are the only two actresses of the movie!

With this appraoch we can give meaning to the disapproval stare De Rosa gives Rita. It is De Rosa who in reality had an affair with Diane. It's like she is saying: "So, you are my replacement?"

Also the swithing of the appartments is easily explained this way. In reality it is the roommate who had left Diane. Notice how Diane is turning reality on it's head in her dream and daydream. In the dream, there is no mention of switching appartments. In fact, it looks like the beginning of a beautiful friendship. In her daydream reality creeps in with the mention of the switched appartments. But...De Rosa hesitates to say the REAL reason, because in her daydream Diane has still some control of the curring of events. But in reality we see that her roommate has left Diane.

Notice the use of space in this sequence of events. In her dream Diane shares the same room / space with her roommate / Martha. In the daydream Diane / Betty knocks at the door of her roommate and the reason for the swap is being repressed. In reality we see the roommate leaving the space of Diane.

I'm in the proces of writing my approach on paper. I'm almost finished and I'm realy happy with my new findings. Others may find it farfetched or just wrong, but for myself I'm very pleased with my new discovered meanings of the movie. When you keep in mind that the movie is structured in dream / daydream / reality with reality resurfacing in the first two segments, you can explain everything. At least that has been my experience. I hope others on this forum consider this approach and come up with new findings and insightful suggestions.

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