Apartment swap with DeRosa explained

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kar
 
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Apartment swap with DeRosa explained

Postby kar » 11 Feb 2013

(please excuse my simple english-it´s not my first language)

DeRosa is not the key piece of puzzle. It is just a small hint for you, that I am sure, I solved the secret of MD.
After recognizing this last piece of puzzle, I figuered out a kind of way how to watch the movie. If you watch the movie in that way, you are able to understand everything.
(it has nothing to do with drugs :-) )
The wonderful thing is, that the movie is getting better. You will realizing how brilliant David Lynch is. In my opinion MD will be regarded as one of the best films ever made.
...and now DeRosa:

DeRosa changed her appartment #17 with Diane´s appartment #12. But why? What are the reasons that anybody would do such a thing? And how do we know that this is the truth?

1. Diane is short of money. By loosing Camilla, she is loosing her income source (small roles in Camilla´s movies) and she takes most of her money to pay the hitman. She lives in #12 a bigger and more expensive appartment in a good condition.
2. DeRosa lives in the smaller and less expensive appartment #17. It´ s not in a quiet good condition.
3. DeRosa desires Diane.
4. DeRosa has similarities with Camilla.
5. They changed appartments 3 weeks ago.
6. Diane´s relationship is broken. She was betrayed by Camilla. She is lonely, she is sad...

When you combine these facts you got the story:

After the break up between Diane and Camilla, DeRosa sees a chance to get in love with Diane. She is making Diane offers. Diane uses DeRosa to get over Camilla. Maybe they got a sexual relationship. Diane is using the fact, that DeRosa falls in love with her. She asks DeRosa, if they could change appartments, because she is short of money. DeRosa agreed. She is hoping that this will stick Diane to her. But after changing appartments, DeRosa realizes that Diane isn´t interested in her. It´s a one way love. (I think most of us have similary experiences.)

Her are the evidences:
Fact 1, (2) , (3) , 4 , 5 and 6: we can see/hear it in the reality scenes. (Party, Winkies, Diane talking with DeRosa).
You have to watch the acting and interacting (Diane-DeRosa).

Fact 2 is underpinned in the dreamscene, when Betty and Rita are exploring the appartmentcomplex and are talking to DeRosa. We can compare the facades of the appartments and we just have to watch the acting of DeRosa (look how she is reacting after betty mentioned the name Diane; and notice the disregarding look at Rita)

So far, I can imagine that this theory is not new. But here is the aha-moment:

Fact 3 can be proofed in a more hidden way:

Watch this scene:
The telephone conversation between Adam and his secretary, Cynthia.
Adam, betrayed, broke and solitary (like Diane) is calling Cynthia. She has similarities with DeRosa.
At the end of the conversation, Cynthia is making him some clear offerings....

(Then go back to the scene, when Diane and Rita are talking to DeRosa:
The telephone is ringing. DeRosa is saying: I´ve got to get that! ...just like a secretary...

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Re: I FOUND THE KEY PIECE OF PUZZLE

Postby kmkmiller » 15 Feb 2013

I don't think DeRosa is a doggie but really looking forward to seeing where this goes.

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Re: I FOUND THE KEY PIECE OF PUZZLE

Postby dexX7 » 15 Feb 2013

Hi there,

do we have hard evidence that the breakup with Camilla has monetary implications for Diana? Either way, Diana is short of money, that's true. I still wonder from where she got the money for the hitman, but that's another topic. But I'm not sure if we can judge which apartment is more expensive.

There is a hint that Diana and DeRose had a relationship or lived together: the ashetray and the other things from DeRose. In the dream world DeRose mentions she has some things in Diana's apartment and in the real world she visits Diana and takes those things back to her apartment. We also know for sure that something happened three weeks ago, but not exactly what. Did she mention the apartment swap in combination with those three weeks? I'm not sure.

I have another theory: they swapped, because Diana hired a hitman to kill Camilla and is scared of getting caught. When DeRose takes her things from Diana back she mentions the officers where at her place again.

Sidenote: Do you remember when dream world Adam changed his living to this shady place? The owner tells him something like "Adam, the bankers asked for you again".


This is my interpretation, which I claim not to be right or anything, just ... my interpretation. :)

Diana went to Hollywood, met Camilla, they fall in love, they broke up ... time goes by (sadly, there is no hint of time)l, she has some kind of relationship with DeRose, ... and then there is a surprise (or was the stop on Mulholland Dr. the only surprise?): she got invited to that party at Adam's, which finally breaks Diana completly. She cuts the relationship with DeRose and hires the hitman. The proof and the realization about what she did drives her more and more in a paranoid and depressed state, which results in her suicide. The first scene of the movie, where you here some breaths and the camera is moving slowly closer to a bed, is Diana's last impression ... and while dying, part I of the movie is fantasized.

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Re: I FOUND THE KEY PIECE OF PUZZLE

Postby kar » 15 Feb 2013

kmkmiller wrote:I don't think DeRosa is a doggie but really looking forward to seeing where this goes.


Oh, that is very interesting what happens here.
Let me try to explain what I mean:
Your sentence expresses what the dream of Diane is all about. You are acting like Diane.
You are trying to refuse the truth (or better: my truth) (you will not accept it) but you are not sure (maybe my truth is the right one) and in the same time you give yourself unconscious one more clue that deepens the truth: You named DeRosa a doggie (the same word Adam said to Cynthia). (I just read the explanation of "to dog somebody" in a dictionary) Remember the dog dirt at Havenhurst...
Isn´t that incredible!

By the way, that is not the only meaning of the dog dirt. It´s also a warning: Danger! The police is tracking me!

Almost every scene/person in the dream has multiple meanings.

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Re: I FOUND THE KEY PIECE OF PUZZLE

Postby kmkmiller » 16 Feb 2013

oh I really don't want to act like Diane.

even if only unintentionally.

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Re: Apartment swap with DeRosa explained

Postby Erniesam » 30 Oct 2013

This changing of appartments had me confused for a long time. I'm still not sure if I get it right, but to me it seems like a reasonable explanation. First two responds to the post of Kar.

1. I don't see how you can tell whether appartment no. 12 is less expensive than no. 17.
2. Diane did NOT loose her source of income, because that's prostitution and not working as an actress (anymore). Furthermore, I don't think it's a matter of money. If it was, than Diane and her roommate would still be living together and share the rent.

So, let me begin by stating that I think there are two options to interpret the appartments bit. Either Diane and her roommate lived together at no. 12 OR they lived together at no. 17. So either the roommate has left Diane OR Diane has left the roommate (and my guess is that the roommate kicked her out).

The roommate comes to get her things. This would lead into the direction of them living together at no. 17 and that the roommate had forgotten those things. It has been three weeks, because Diane has been depressed all that time.

But...the roommate says that there has been two detectives looking for Diane again. These detectives must have come to no. 12 and that would suggest, that they think Diane lives at no. 12. This would mean that Diane indeed lived at no. 12 and that because of the worsening relation with her roommate has left or has been kicked out by her. My guess is that Diane has been kicked out, because she wouldn't deny any love in her life even if it's forced. So the roommate kicked her out. This would also explain the surprise look on Betty's face when she finds De Rosa at no. 12 in her dream. She says irritated: "But it says no. 12!" I guess Diane imagines in her dream to be still living at no.12 because that would be a suppression of her break up with her roommate.

That to me seems the most logical explanation. We still have the stuff that the roommate comes to get, of course. You could argue that Diane took this by mistake, but my guess is that it was on purpose. The dishes and the lamp do have a significant meaning. Notice that she hasn't unpacked this yet. Is this because she wasn't aware of it in her depression or is Diane aware of the fact that this belongs to her roommate? This is also tied in with the symbolic meaning of the dishes and lamp.

To me the dishes represent Diane's connection to reality. This sounds perhaps a bit weird, but let me explain. After the Cowboy has left we enter the scene in Winkie's with Diane and the hitman. This scene begins with the breaking of dishes by someone behind the counter. To me this represents the breaking of the connection of Diane with reality because...the Cowboy, that is Diane's connection to reality has left. THe breaking of the dishes is a literal representation of that.

The lamp is white. Notice that the lamp has the same form as the red lamp we have seen earlier twice: once in the appartment of the pimp who answers the phone ("Talk to me") and the second time in Diane's own appartment in her fantasy, when it is Camilla who calls. I guess it's obvious that the red lamp represents prostitution. In my opinion the white lamp than represents the opposite, that is pure and innocent sexual experience. This white lamp represents Diane's sex life with her roommate. Notice how Diane hasn't removed it from the box as though she wants to preserve it. It is the roommate herself who literally takes this pure and innocent sex life away from Diane.

So, what about the ashtray? We do see an ashtray twice next to the telephone and under the red lamp. These ashtrays are full of sigarettes and the one the roommate takes away is empty. I guess this ashtray serves a similar function as the white lamp: the two cheap ashtrays were filled with sigarettes of Diane's clients, while this ashtray of the roommate is empty and clean. This too she takes away from Diane.

According to this new approach I guess Diane and her roommate lived together at no. 12 and that her roommate kicked Diane out because of the bad relationship.

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Re: Apartment swap with DeRosa explained

Postby Erniesam » 01 Nov 2013

I'd like to make an important correction to my post above: I think it was Diane who had left her roommate instead of her roommate kicking her out.

Some might say that there is a third option and that Diane asked this lady to swap apartments. That to me seems impossible or at least highly improbable for the following reasons.

1. The reason for the swap would be than, that Diane wanted to avoid her "employers." This argument seems logical, but has a major flaw: the reason for the absence of Diane is her upcoming depression and this thinking of the consequences of her absence would require rational thought! It's highly improbable that Diane could do that in her mental state.

2. It's possible that Diane deliberately kept those things of this lady behind, to have a reminder of her relationship with her. But...when they DID have a relationship, why didn't they live together? Also, they could share the rent together. Wouldn't they have done that?

3. We know Diane must have lived at no. 12 because that's where the "detectives" came looking for her. So, if she swapped apartments with this lady (in order to avoid them), wouldn't she be grateful to this lady? In stead we see that it is Diane who is angry with her, while this lady obviously still has feelings for Diane when she asks: "How are you, Diane? Are you okay?"

This lady isn't angry with Diane personally, she's just irritated that she has to wait for her stuff so long. If she was angry with Diane, why did she tell her that those detectives were looking for her? To me this seems another clue that this lady still has some affection for Diane. Furthermore, she could have told them where Diane lived, because they said they are detectives and why would she not cooperate? I guess she still have some affection for Diane and wants to look out for her.

So, when this lady is NOT angry with Diane, it must be Diane who broke up the relationship. Why? First of I'd like to notice that this lady speaks of "detectives." My guess is that she realy believes they are detectives. So, my guess is that Diane never told her that she works as a prostitute, otherwise this lady would have suspected these detectives were not who they say they are. So Diane kept this prostitution a secret from her roommate. This must have been a burden to her. Furthermore, in her upcoming depression Diane would have seen things around her as very negative. The things closest to her would also be the blackest in her mind. Moreover, Diane must have felt guilt and embarrassment about the prostitution and about not telling her roommate. I guess that's the reason why Diane decided to move and give up the relation entirely. It is Diane who quited the relationship and ran away from her problems, just like she did with her sexual abuse. She doesn't know how to cope with such problems.

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Re: Apartment swap with DeRosa explained

Postby bben » 11 Nov 2013

To me the dishes represent Diane's connection to reality. This sounds perhaps a bit weird, but let me explain. After the Cowboy has left we enter the scene in Winkie's with Diane and the hitman. This scene begins with the breaking of dishes by someone behind the counter. To me this represents the breaking of the connection of Diane with reality because...the Cowboy, that is Diane's connection to reality has left. THe breaking of the dishes is a literal representation of that.
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Re: Apartment swap with DeRosa explained

Postby Erniesam » 15 Nov 2013

bben,

I do not get it. Do you agree with the assessment you have citated or do you find it silly?

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Re: Apartment swap with DeRosa explained

Postby outofthewoods » 28 Mar 2014

kar wrote:DeRosa changed her appartment #17 with Diane´s appartment #12. But why? What are the reasons that anybody would do such a thing?

The reason Diane switched apartments with "the woman in #12" (as she's called in the credits) has always seemed very clear to me--at least in the "reality" scenes. Simply put: Diane swaps apartments in order to HIDE. She's hiding because there are detectives looking for her, as the "lady in #12" very clearly states. The common consensus is, of course, that Diane paid a man to kill Camilla, he was successful (Diane has the blue key) and so now detectives want to question Diane about Camilla's murder, so Diane switches apartments simply to evade the detectives. That's more than good enough of a reason.

However, about this idea that the lady in #12 is in love with Diane is still very plausible if the above is true. The lady in #12 tells Diane the detectives came by looking for Diane again. This means that she is covering for Diane. If this lady is lying to the authorities in order to help Diane, that means she is willing to break the law and put herself at risk... for Diane. She wouldn't do something like that for just anyone, which means she MUST have some strong feelings for Diane.

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Re: Apartment swap with DeRosa explained

Postby Coffee Cup » 29 May 2015

Okay, here's my opinion on the apartment swap.

When Diane first came to Hollywood, she rented a room at a shady place downtown ran by a guy named Cookie. Shortly after that, Diane met Camilla who was also an aspiring actress. They became friends and Camilla helped Diane get the job at Winkies. Over time, their relationship grew stronger and Camilla invited Diane to live with her in an apartment at Sierra Bonita. In this apartment, they fell in love with each other and had a hot, steamy relationship (hehe).

One day, Diane caught word of an audition for a movie called The Sylvia North Story. She told Camilla that she was going to audition for it and that Camilla should also. Diane got quite a reality check when she found out that the director (Bob Brooker) didn't think much of her, but decided to cast Camilla for the lead role!! Diane went back to her crappy job at Winkies while Camilla went on to become famous.

Shortly thereafter, Camilla caught the eye of the lead male role in the film played by Adam Kesher. Camilla, swept away by visions of a glorious Hollywood lifestyle as an actress dating a famous actor, she began to date Adam. Over time, their relationship grew stronger and Camilla wanted to break off her relationship with Diane. Eventually, Camilla was able to do that. She left Diane in that apartment and went on to live with Adam in his plush mansion at the top of Mulholland Drive.

Diane's neighbor, DeRosa, became friends with Diane. Eventually, they started dating as well. DeRosa was probably already aware of her being gay because she had seen the two of them together in the complex. Eventually, Diane moved into DeRosas apartment.

However, this relationship failed as well (As does everything Diane tries to do) because DeRosa could not deal with all of Diane's issues and the fact that she was always hung up on Camilla. However, when they broke up, Diane refused to move back into her old apartment because she had too many hard memories of her and Camilla in that apartment. DeRosa agreed to let Diane stay in her apartment while DeRosa moved into her old one.

DeRosa had to come back to get some stuff left over from when she lived there.

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Re: Apartment swap with DeRosa explained

Postby Siku » 18 Jun 2015


How so? What do you see as the occupation history of 12, 17 (and 16?) SB?

Personally (and you won't like it) I'm a DeRosa=Camilla man. So I'm seeing
1) DeRosa lives at 17
2) Diane moves in with Derosa at 17
3) SPLIT! Diane won't move out so DeRosa moves to 12

Hence apartment 'swap' (putting it tactfully).

I'm pretty sure there's a hole in this timeline of occupation but I can't remember what it is now. There's so many versions all with holes that I can't remember them all. It's like a thicket of possibilities, quite probably on purpose!

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Re: Apartment swap with DeRosa explained

Postby Coffee Cup » 19 Jun 2015

Siku wrote:


How so? What do you see as the occupation history of 12, 17 (and 16?) SB?

Personally (and you won't like it) I'm a DeRosa=Camilla man. So I'm seeing
1) DeRosa lives at 17
2) Diane moves in with Derosa at 17
3) SPLIT! Diane won't move out so DeRosa moves to 12

Hence apartment 'swap' (putting it tactfully).

I'm pretty sure there's a hole in this timeline of occupation but I can't remember what it is now. There's so many versions all with holes that I can't remember them all. It's like a thicket of possibilities, quite probably on purpose!


The occupation theory is as follows:
1) DeRosa lived in 17
2) Diane moved into 12
3) Camilla moved into 12 with Diane
4) Camilla and Diane broke up. Camilla moved out.
5) Diane began to date DeRosa and eventually moved into 17 with her.
6) Diane and DeRosa broke up. Camilla refused to move back into 12 because of her hurtful memories of Camilla. DeRosa agrees to swap apartments.

At Adam's dinner party, Diane mentions that she met Camilla on the set of the SNS.

Your theory assumes that Diane and Camilla met at Sierra Bonita unless you want to theorize that they did meet on the SNS but it just so happened that they both lived at Sierra Bonita.

The fact that the ashtray is on the table during Diane and Camillas steamy love scene implies that Diane was still messing around with Camilla after the apartment swap or while she was still living with DeRosa. After all, Diane and Camilla are together in unit 17 and DeRosa's ashtray is on the table....

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Re: Apartment swap with DeRosa explained

Postby Siku » 22 Jun 2015

Coffee Cup wrote:The occupation theory is as follows:
1) DeRosa lived in 17
2) Diane moved into 12
3) Camilla moved into 12 with Diane
4) Camilla and Diane broke up. Camilla moved out.
5) Diane began to date DeRosa and eventually moved into 17 with her.
6) Diane and DeRosa broke up. Camilla refused to move back into 12 because of her hurtful memories of Camilla. DeRosa agrees to swap apartments.

So why is Diane's stuff in boxes?

Coffee Cup wrote:Your theory assumes that Diane and Camilla met at Sierra Bonita unless you want to theorize that they did meet on the SNS but it just so happened that they both lived at Sierra Bonita.

No my theory assumes that Camilla doesn't exist. Camilla IS DeRosa.

Coffee Cup wrote:The fact that the ashtray is on the table during Diane and Camillas steamy love scene implies that Diane was still messing around with Camilla after the apartment swap or while she was still living with DeRosa. After all, Diane and Camilla are together in unit 17 and DeRosa's ashtray is on the table....

Intersting, a Camilla/DeRosa overlap in Diane's love life is a new one on me.

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Re: Apartment swap with DeRosa explained

Postby Coffee Cup » 22 Jun 2015

Siku wrote:So why is Diane's stuff in boxes?


Good question. Maybe she just hasn't fully unpacked from when she moved in with DeRosa. Unlikely but plausible. Maybe it's just the rest of Diane's stuff from #12 that she left in there when she moved into #17 with DeRosa. She probably didn't bring everything in the entire apartment with her when she moved in. When they decided to swap, she had to empty that apartment of all her things so DeRosa could move in. Or perhaps those are Camilla's items that were left in #12 when Camilla moved out. When DeRosa moved into #12 she brought them over to #17.

Siku wrote:Intersting, a Camilla/DeRosa overlap in Diane's love life is a new one on me.


Because we see the ashtray on the table when Diane and Camilla are on the sofa, it can really only mean one of three things:

1. DeRosa is still living in that apartment with Diane and they are still together.
2. DeRosa is still living in that apartment with Diane but they are separated.
3. DeRosa has moved out but hasn't picked up all her stuff yet.

There definitely was an apartment swap though. I'm just trying to make sense of it. The most logical thing I can come up with is that Diane rented #12 and DeRosa rented #17. At some point, Diane moved into #17 with DeRosa. When they broke up, Diane refused to move back into #12 because of the memories of her and Camilla living together in that apartment.


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