I found the key piece of puzzle

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kar
 
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I found the key piece of puzzle

Postby kar » 05 Feb 2013

Hello. I know it sounds unbelievable but I discover a detail in the movie that answers all the questions.
Lynch gives it to us in a genious way.
After you´ve seen it, you will know why Diane is dreaming of a blue box; why does that bum appears in her dream, what are these dancing people at the beginning etc..
It`s nothing abstract, it is a simple little thing that no one seems to discover before.
I will post it on February the 19. th (I have to wait so long, because I promised it to my friends, so they get a chance to see the movie again (to get familiar with the content and all the persons and symbols)
(notice: it´s more difficult to me to wait another 14 days to share my discovering with you but
I think after all those years, to wait another 14 days doesn´t matter.)

greetings from germany
kar

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kmkmiller
 
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Re: I FOUND THE KEY PIECE OF PUZZLE

Postby kmkmiller » 08 Feb 2013

i hope we're not waiting just to find out there's a blue key (two kinds) in the movie.

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Re: I FOUND THE KEY PIECE OF PUZZLE

Postby derekfnord » 09 Feb 2013

I'm game. I'll check in on the 19th to hear the revelation... :)

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kar
 
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Re: I FOUND THE KEY PIECE OF PUZZLE

Postby kar » 09 Feb 2013

You won´t be dissapointed.
You have to think simple. You have to f e e l the film.
In a metaphorical sense the dream is a duell...
Here is a small hint:
Youw want to know who is the woman of appartment #12?
Look for the 2nd DeRosa!

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Re: I FOUND THE KEY PIECE OF PUZZLE

Postby derekfnord » 10 Feb 2013

I assume you mean someone other than Rita/Camilla. If your big revelation is that Rita/Camilla is/are (a) doppleganger(s) for DeRosa (or vice-versa), I have to warn you... that's not exactly a bombshell. Variations on that theme have been much discussed. :)

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Re: I FOUND THE KEY PIECE OF PUZZLE

Postby kar » 19 Feb 2013

O.k.
Today I will solve the biggest secret in cinema history.

You all want to know, why Diane is dreaming of that blue box and that „ Black Monster Bum“.

Here is my answer:

Driven by her bad conscience, Diane is having nightmares. She shows paranoid behaviour.
She is staring at the blue key and suddenly she knows „what`s it open“. (It´s not important if this is the truth in reality; it only matters what´s going on in Diane´s paranoid mind):

After killing Camilla, the hitman throws the corpse in a blue dumpster. But a bum witnesses this and he finds the corpse. I will be punished! The police will catch me! THERE IS A MAN. I CAN SEE HIM THROUGH THE WALL. HE IS THE ONE WHO IS DOING IT!!!!!

There are several hints in the dream:

1 Ed´s office.
The hitman throws the fat woman to the ground and kills her. The vacuum man, representing the bum, is a witness. (look at his dirty face and clothes, how he is walking with his vacuum (shopping cart).

2 Pink´s:

The hitman lets the prostitute/Camilla vanishing in his blue van (blue dumpster). The pimp/bum is a witness. He is dressed in black and stands besides a garbage can. Notice the big breasts of the prostitute (like Camilla...)

3 Rita (the corpse) is vanishing in the blue box...

4 The bum examines the blue box. The raw meat is a symbol for the corpse. The can opener is a symbol for handcuffs.


Before I present you the ultimative evidence, I want to know what you are thinking of this. Do you agree or do you think this is nonsense?

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Re: I FOUND THE KEY PIECE OF PUZZLE

Postby blu » 19 Feb 2013

It's been suggested before that the key was left behind Winkies or that Camilla's corpse was left there. I'm not sure if I've read that the corpse may have been put in a blue dumpster - that's a nice suggestion.

One thing though. I can understand your reasoning of how the bum seeing Joe dumping the body might bring on these horrible fears about being caught etc, but how exactly does Diane know what the bum saw? Diane wouldn't be there to see it with her own eyes, and I find it unlikely that Joe would be eager to share something like that with Diane, so how does she know that information to make the bum such a terrifying symbol for her?

:holmes:

Do go on though. I don't think it's nonsense. Some interesting ideas. ;-)

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Re: I FOUND THE KEY PIECE OF PUZZLE

Postby kar » 19 Feb 2013

blu wrote:, so how does she know that information to make the bum such a terrifying symbol for her?



HERE IS THE KEY PIECE OF PUZZLE. THE MOST IMPORTANT SCENE IN MD.

In the scene at Winkie´s, when Diane asks the hitman "what´s it open?" the hitman is just laughing. But watch his small gestures: he starts laughing, puts his head slightly to the window and is clapping with his right hand on the windowsill: when you look out of the window you can see it across the street: the blue dumpster and the dark shadow: the „black monster bum“-youst above the hand of the hitman!
Diane didn´t see it but unconscious she perceived it!

Isn´t that a brilliant idea of David Lynch???


There is something more to discover in that scene. Over the blue dumpster there is a big poster (purple/black/a face/silhouettes of dancing people/on the street cars are rushing by. Doesn´t that reminds you of the opening dream?

It´s all in one small scene: The beginning and the end...

Good night and i hope you will enjoy watching the scene!

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Re: I FOUND THE KEY PIECE OF PUZZLE

Postby Bob » 20 Feb 2013

That's a really nice observation. I just don't see how everything falls into place now.

blue_dumpster.jpg

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Re: I FOUND THE KEY PIECE OF PUZZLE

Postby Siku » 20 Feb 2013

Indeed, well spotted Kar!

I wonder if it was intentional on Lynch's part..?

And I'm with Bob too, how does this bring together the other aspects of the story you spoke about?

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kar
 
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Re: I FOUND THE KEY PIECE OF PUZZLE

Postby kar » 20 Feb 2013

What did you expect? Something that explains every little thing of the dream. That´s impossible because we only got some information of what happens in reality. But try to watch the movie in the way I described to you (duell of the ID and the SUPER-EGO) and you will get a very good interpretation of the dream.


For me this is the most important scene/detail because it solves the key secret: the meaning of the bum and the blue box.
It´s like the last piece of puzzle. There is no further room for other interpretation. It explains the main scenes of the dream. It explains the first dream, it explains the Winkie´s scene with Dan, it explains what happens at Ed´s office, it explains what happens in front of Pink´s, it explains the appearing of the blue box, it explains the vanishing of Rita into the blue box.
Of course there are many other scenes and details in the dream. Some are more some are less important and you can interpretate them in this or that way. But these scenes/details are only side plots. You can cut them away and you will still understand, why Diane is committing suicide. But if you cut the main scenes of the dream away it´s a lot more difficuilt to understand the suicide.


In my opinion, this is one of the most brilliant scenes in cinema history. You can compare it to the cut (bone/spaceship) in Kubrick´s 2001.


If I have the time I will post my interpretation of the movie scene by scene over the next weeks and we can discuss every scene. There are so many details in the movie. I´m sure that I overlooked many of them.

Good night

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Re: I FOUND THE KEY PIECE OF PUZZLE

Postby kmkmiller » 21 Feb 2013

That's pretty cool... Lynch would put that dumpster there for sure and I never noticed it, but I am definitely a person who believes nothing is an accident in a Lynch movie... For instance now that I am drawn to the background of that scene, I notice the coin laundry there as well... Which to me just adds all the little examples of cleaning things that show throughout the movie ... The guy raking leaves outside Adams house, there's a guy with a broom outside the Ryan entertainment building to name a couple. The paint remover in Adams garage.

As far as the purple poster above that well spotted dumpster note that there is a dancing couple painted on the side of the building more directly across the street from winkies as well... You will see it behind Dan and Herb.

Which definitely ties this scene to very beginning jitterbug scene ... Yes indeed.

But I'm still not up to speed on the Freudian analysis... I would look to other lynch works to figure out the symbolism of dancing... For instance I ask myself what was that little guy doing in the black lodge in Twin Peaks ... I bet there is more congruence between lynch works, not as much between Lynchs work and extraneous texts, Jung, Freud or otherwise.. I know that is pedestrian of me but oh well.

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Re: I FOUND THE KEY PIECE OF PUZZLE

Postby Siku » 21 Feb 2013

Money Laundering?

Kar, re the id vs super-ego idea, are you saying either one can operate at any time through any object or prop or character or action or line of dialogue? Or do you assign certain players to the id and others to the ego, e.g. Louise might be a manifestation of the super ego while Adam is always the id?

I'm asking because you said the photo resume at Ryan Entertainment is first manifested by the super-ego then by the id This switching of allegiances obviously provides a lot more flexibility in how we assign Diane's character to the two boxes - id and super-ego.

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Re: I FOUND THE KEY PIECE OF PUZZLE

Postby blu » 21 Feb 2013

kar wrote:What did you expect? Something that explains every little thing of the dream.


kar wrote:Hello. I know it sounds unbelievable but I discover a detail in the movie that answers all the questions.


:whistle:

;-)

I'm teasing. I hope you do find time to post more of your ideas.

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Re: I FOUND THE KEY PIECE OF PUZZLE

Postby blu » 22 Apr 2013

kmkmiller wrote:It's not like it's a big deal or anything, but I do try to clarify my reading of the movie. I do not believe that certain parts are more real than others or that characters in the dream are lifted from a "reality" counterpart scene. As an example, The Cowboy who visits Adam. That is not a scene that found it's genesis in Diane seeing a Cowboy in the dinner party scene, not in my opinion.

That is just The Cowboy who shows up at crucial points in the movie to help the characters get to where they need to go.

Why then does David even bother showing us The Cowboy at the party? A misdirection, red herring, or ... ? It must have some significance mustn't it?

And how does The Cowboy at the party fit in with your idea of him helping people along?

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