Dinner Party Lies? (Split Topic)

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marksman
 
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Re: Dinner Party Lies? (Split Topic)

Postby marksman » 20 Nov 2010

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Re: Dinner Party Lies? (Split Topic)

Postby vicster111 » 20 Nov 2010

she is frustrated because she can't conjure up the mental images she desires(she's maxed out at her bank)

I love how the bank ties into it! I always saw it the same way, like she's saying to herself "C'mon, focus!"...but it doesn't work any longer.

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Re: Dinner Party Lies? (Split Topic)

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Re: Dinner Party Lies? (Split Topic)

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Re: Dinner Party Lies? (Split Topic)

Postby vicster111 » 21 Nov 2010

The bum behind Winkie's? This is representative of what Diane is. Homeless. Living behind the dumpsters at the studio lot. She breaks into various studios and lives out her fantasies and dreams on various sets.

I wanted to go over how I came to some of these conclusions so that no one here would think I was nuts. Well, you probably still will, but...lol! This is a recent idea that I'm still pondering so bear with me.

The bum behind Winkie's? This is representative of what Diane is. Homeless.

I come to this conclusion for a few reasons. The bum is female. The apartment that we believe belongs to Diane Selwyn looks to be from the 1950's or 1960's. No one in the year 2001 would have appliances from those eras unless they lived in a shack or were a collector. This is more than likely Diane using a movie set to live/act out a fantasy. The final reason? If we believe that the first half of the film is a wish-fulfillment dream, then it would only make sense that Diane would want Adam to suffer the same things that she's suffered. We see Adam become homeless and poor. He only has enough money for one night at Cookies. After that, he's on the street.

Living behind the dumpsters at the studio lot.

Rita sneaking into Havenhurst is a clue that Diane snuck into a studio lot - the two look too similar. I say she's behind the dumpsters simply because that's where we find the bum behind Winkie's. But it could be that she just lives behind a studio building in the back - between the building and the fence. Wherever she is, there is a privacy or security fence surrounding the complex. It has barbed wire on top to keep people from jumping the fence. The barbed wire is representative that security is important at this place.

She breaks into various studios and lives out her fantasies and dreams on various sets.

I say this because how else would she see the sets of particular movies, and their stars, and then incorporate them into her fantasies (if she's homeless)? Rita sneaking into Aunt Ruth's apartment, once inside Havenhurst, is also an indicator that Diane enters various buildings inside this lot.

Now, I did change my mind on her always having to break in. I think she may break in sometimes. This is shown to us when she enters Apt 17 through the window. But I also think that Joe lets her in sometimes (for a price of course). I came to this conclusion because we see Joe telling Diane he will leave her a key. Either he gives her an actual key (I doubt it), or that scene is just symbolic of Joe giving Diane access for a price.

When I write out my theory in full, I will relay what that price is. It's not money. I will also fill you in on Camilla's photo resume.

Production of the Sylvia North Story has been shut down. Everyone was suddenly 'fired'. Therefore, there was no one around to tear the set down. They also wanted to keep it up, probably, because they expect production to resume at some point. This set is available for Diane to sleep in and Joe to 'get paid'. Joe lets her use it.

I say that Joe is a janitor because not only would he need to have keys for every studio and office (a janitor would have these), but two of the people we see him kill are related to cleaning. We see a broom in the film 4 times. Why does he shoot the electric one (vacuum)? Because he hates his job and he has plans for a better one...plans that I will reveal in my full-length theory. (Remember, this is part of wish-fulfillment.)

I hope to get the full-length theory out sometime soon, but I am still pondering some things...including the use of reflections and colors.

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Re: Dinner Party Lies? (Split Topic)

Postby vicster111 » 21 Nov 2010

I just have to throw one more tidbit on here. You probably figured it out anyway.

Joe wants to make a film. A porno film. He wants to be a famous director. Right now, though, he is a janitor and doesn't have (nor can he afford) a studio. But...he has access to one right now that isn't being used. ("I couldn't afford a place like this in a million years") And he has one 'star' that's not costing him anything cash-wise. She just needs a place to stay and has a certain request in regards to the making of this film. No problem. Once he completes his film and makes money, he can quit his dreadful janitorial job and start his new career.

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Re: Dinner Party Lies? (Split Topic)

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Re: Dinner Party Lies? (Split Topic)

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Re: Dinner Party Lies? (Split Topic)

Postby somethingbad » 21 Nov 2010

The seating arrangement at the dinner table has always looked odd - brilliantly filmed to create a disorientating feel and add to the lie of the scene. Camilla and Adam look almost entwined in each other at times and Diane seems very awkward at the table. Wilkins looks like a little boy at the table in a similar way to Diane looking child like when she is being led up the garden path and to the pool. It looks like the woman sat next to Diane on her left is another red head.

Coco almost halted this daydream/fantasy when she made Diane feel awkward by the pool. Up until then the walk up the garden path almost seemed another magical beginning to Diane's fantasies- her and Camilla in a secret place. It turned out to be nothing more than a back way into Adam's house -sneaking Diane in without fuss. Then Adam and his mother show up and the fantasy turns bad and Diane almost pulls out of it then. Diane stays with the fantasy and we see the dinner table scene where she trundles out the same lies she tells anyone who asks how she got to Hollywood. She's told them so often she's even beginning to believe them herself.

Camilla speaking the Spanish lines off-camera and with poor dubbing is a great spot. How often does Camilla speak with anyone other than Diane in either section of the film? I can only think of her saying, "Can Diane stay?" to Adam in the car scene and "Don't stop" to the cab driver when they go to Sierra Bonita.

marksman, if Lynch knows rhyning slang we may need to look further at the banking!!!

vicster, you have many great ideas but I think you should start a separate thread for some of them so that they are not buried under others - the Bum as lead character probably deserves her own thread?

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Re: Dinner Party Lies? (Split Topic)

Postby vicster111 » 21 Nov 2010

if Lynch knows rhyning slang we may need to look further at the banking!!!

I think you guys are onto something with the slang. Cookie also says things (in spanish) like "Look, man" and "Listen, brother". Who else uses slang in this film? Ed and Joe. And doesn't Ed call Joe "Bro"? Is the scene with Adam and Cookie meant to be some kind of 'mirror' to the scene with Ed and Joe? Who else uses slang? Coco. "Don't make me out to be a sucker" and "Look at me straight, sweetie."

"Maxed out at your bank" could very well be slang for something.

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Re: Dinner Party Lies? (Split Topic)

Postby ctyankee » 21 Nov 2010

somethingbad wrote:Camilla speaking the Spanish lines off-camera and with poor dubbing is a great spot. How often does Camilla speak with anyone other than Diane in either section of the film? I can only think of her saying, "Can Diane stay?" to Adam in the car scene and "Don't stop" to the cab driver when they go to Sierra Bonita.


Welcome aboard somethingbad!

So, what lines does Laura Harring have with another actor besides Naomi Watts? Other than the ones you mentioned I can think of:

"What are you doing? We don't stop here." To the limo driver.

"Perfect Timing" When Adam brings the drinks by the swimming pool.

Something like 'no, you tell them' to Adam indicating that he should make the announcement at the party.

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Re: Dinner Party Lies? (Split Topic)

Postby vicster111 » 21 Nov 2010

It just dawned on me... Are there things being said in slang that we're not recognizing as slang (they're not obvious)? Consider these lines (and I'm sure there are many more):
"You're his best friend"
"Dad's best friend goes to work"
"I've gotta finish making that sandwich"
"Don't drink all the coke"

By the way, all of these lines, if they are in fact slang, are sexual in nature.

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Re: Dinner Party Lies? (Split Topic)

Postby somethingbad » 21 Nov 2010

Hey ctyankee, you must be like the godfather of MD theories! I remember your username from when I first read theories on the RT boards years ago! I worry that these threads will bury helpful ideas because they are discussed in long posts with misleading titles! I'm not usually that anal but i don't want to miss any gems on MD... the elusive answers MUST NOT ESCAPE! :-)

I see the majority of the dream as wish fulfillment on Diane's behalf but at all times her conscience is never far away and is pointing out the illusions in the dream. When Betty is in the dream she's really steering it towards the wish fulfillment Diane desires. Betty guides Rita to say what she wants her to say, "You don't know where the money comes from", etc.

When Betty is not in dream her (guilty) conscience has a better chance at driving the buggy - Mr Roque is a shadowy film industry figure in one sense of the dream but that's what Betty would like to think. He's also representative of Diane's innermost thoughts and feelings and he wants Diane in the dream so she can be shown what a bad person she is. When Diane tricks him and herself by bringing Betty into the dream instead he's not happy and that may lead to shutting everything down. I.e. Stopping the dream or even shutting down Diane's life - suicide.

Wish fulfillment sees Adam reduced to the status of a near penniless bum staying in a grotty downtown hotel but it also gives Cookie the chance to warn the dreaming Diane that she's "maxed out" at her bank. She has little wish fulfillment credit left and the guys from her bank are her guilty conscience on the look-out for her. Cooks(Cookie) bring us nourishment and feed us but this Cookie is bringing Adam the opposite on this occasion. (Or is it Cookie as in biscuit?!)

When Betty comes face to face with Adam in the dream she knows she hasn't got long left before it all catches up with her even in the dream world. Her work at the studio is done then anyway because she has proved to herself that she could've been a great actress and she does the right thing by racing back across town to be with Rita. What she is really doing here is showing Rita the corpse that her character is responsible for creating and then one last bit of wish fulfillment with the lovemaking scene before relinquishing control of the buggy to another driver who takes her to the truth of Silencio

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