Dinner Party Lies? (Split Topic)

Exclusively reserved for discussion regarding David Lynch's 'Mulholland Dr.'
User avatar
ctyankee
 
Posts: 196
Joined: 24 Oct 2010
Status: Offline

Re: Dinner Party Lies? (Split Topic)

Postby ctyankee » 19 Nov 2010

vicster111 wrote:What are all the possibilities that Lynch decided to dub off-screen?

That is very possible. But if we know Lynch the way we think we do, the difference in sound between the dub and the rest of the dialogue would not have been acceptable to him. He puts too much emphasis on sound in his films to let this obvious dub stay as an obvious dub (he would have tweeked it to blend better) unless it served a purpose and was meant to sound as an obvious dub.


I would agree that that is a possibility. What other possibilities are there? Or following your train of thought, if you think that the dub serves some purpose ... what are all the possible purposes?

User avatar
marksman
 
Posts: 104
Joined: 26 Oct 2010
Status: Offline

Re: Dinner Party Lies? (Split Topic)

Postby marksman » 19 Nov 2010

"vicster111"][i]"Ah, Perfect timing."



And I remember, at one time, thinking that Diane was projecting the image of Camilla onto other women (girlfriends? the neighbor?). And that these other woman were aware that she was doing it. What gave me this impression was when Camilla said "You drive me wild" and then immediately said "We shouldn't do this anymore". "You drive me wild" is part of the role playing game. I think the "We shouldn't do this anymore" comment was directly related to her (unknown woman) no longer wanting to 'pretend to be someone else'


This really makes sense to me now.
Taking things a step forward, I think that when we see Adam outside of the first long dream, that is , in the subsequent dreams of kissing Camilla in the car and the party, we seem him only in relation to Camilla (who is no longer present in Diane's life, due to imprisonment).
In the first scene, we see Adam get into the car, to get close to Camilla, then he kisses her, and Diane looks on in despair.
In the second scene, we see Adam walk straight up to Camilla and flirt with her and then, later in the scene, is shown about to announce their engagement. We do not see Adam mingle at the party. Of course, Diane looks on despairingly again.
If Camilla is no longer really present, neither is Adam.
Recapping my version: Adam is the witness whose testimony led to Camilla's imprisonment. And Diane resents him for this, even though she probably never saw him again, once the trial had finished. Adam's identification of Camilla in open court (Adem:"This is the girl." Luigi:"Excellent choice, Adam." Camilla Rhodes:"Might as well confess, if the answer's yes."), caused Camilla to change her plea to guilty.
Therefore, when (the now adult) Diane dreams of Camilla, the dream is thwarted by Adam, who is seen as the one person responsible for taking Camilla away from her. Without Adam's testimony, Diane believes that Camilla would still be there with her.
The first long dream, is really a lucid dream, in which Diane can change these circumstances, by creating a new Camilla, with no memories and a new name (Rita). In this dream she can make her into anything that she wants and, at the same time, give a random blonde woman the name Camilla Rhodes. Then, whatever Adam does, he can't take her (dark haired Camilla/Rita) away from her. As with all lucid dreams, this all falls apart towards the end.

User avatar
marksman
 
Posts: 104
Joined: 26 Oct 2010
Status: Offline

Re: Dinner Party Lies? (Split Topic)

Postby marksman » 19 Nov 2010

<deleted>
Last edited by marksman on 08 Dec 2010, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
vicster111
 
Posts: 281
Joined: 26 Oct 2010
Status: Offline

Re: Dinner Party Lies? (Split Topic)

Postby vicster111 » 19 Nov 2010

Something else that further implies that Diane had her feelings hurt during this part of the party scene before she 'edited' it.

We see Coco pat her on the hand in sympathy. "I see."

Now if you pair this line "I see" with what we heard, "That's when we became friends", it doesn't make sense. Why would Diane need some comforting after stating "That's when we became friends"? It's possible that Coco patted Diane's hand after Diane said "Camilla got the part", that would make more sense, but Diane puts on a little smile when she's saying it. This comment doesn't seem to require a sympathy pat either. She received that pat for another reason. I believe it is because Adam was rude and Coco noticed that Diane understood she was being insulted.

I also believe that Diane is not even sitting at this table. I have this strong gut feeling that Diane is a server at this party. The drink server. And she's having idle chat with Coco. Coco is very polite to her, unlike Adam, and this is why Coco plays a motherly sort of role in the 1st part of the film. Coco is nice to the 'help' and not a snob.

Lynch, I've heard, likes to 'reveal truths' using pools of water. There was a pool outside where wine drinks were served. You see the bar on the right side of the screen. I think this is one of Diane's stations. I think she also serves the coffee after the dinner. She overheard Luigi say that the coffee was awful.

BTW, ctyankee, if you stick around long enough you will see the other possibilities I see in this section of the film. Lol! But right now, this is how I see it.

User avatar
vicster111
 
Posts: 281
Joined: 26 Oct 2010
Status: Offline

Re: Dinner Party Lies? (Split Topic)

Postby vicster111 » 19 Nov 2010

I just had another thought.

When watching Inland Empire, I heard mention of a commissary at the studio lot. Does Diane work at one of these? Does this give her access to characters, in costume, who are then incorporated into her dreams and fantasies?

Or is she a 'gopher' (a person who runs errands - gets coffee, delivers faxes, drives people around the lot on a golf cart, etc.) for certain studios within the lot? Like, for Studios 12, 16 and 17? Do the films being made in these studios and the characters starring in these films become incorporated into her dreams and fantasies?

If one of these scenarios is the case, then this could be how she 'met' Camilla.

Just a thought.

User avatar
vicster111
 
Posts: 281
Joined: 26 Oct 2010
Status: Offline

Re: Dinner Party Lies? (Split Topic)

Postby vicster111 » 19 Nov 2010

(I'm brainstorming again...lol!)

In one of these Studios mentioned above, a film by the name of 'The Sylvia North Story' is being made. It is the life story of a red-headed woman, Sylvia North.

The reason we see different redheads in MD, at different stages of life (age), is because at least 4 (but as many as 6*) different actresses are playing the part of Sylvia North.

Most, if not all, of them appear in Diane's fantasies/dreams.

*I say six because we hear Adam say "Six of the top actresses want this thing"

BTW - I'm wondering...Can a film take the space of 2 studios? Maybe the SNS film is using 2 studios...16 and 12.

User avatar
marksman
 
Posts: 104
Joined: 26 Oct 2010
Status: Offline

Re: Dinner Party Lies? (Split Topic)

Postby marksman » 19 Nov 2010

<deleted>
Last edited by marksman on 08 Dec 2010, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
vicster111
 
Posts: 281
Joined: 26 Oct 2010
Status: Offline

Re: Dinner Party Lies? (Split Topic)

Postby vicster111 » 19 Nov 2010

Well, here's a little more. Lol!

Does Diane steal items from the studios to help 'set up' her fantasies in her 'bluescreen' apartment?

It would make sense that a studio would have a blue book called 'Tout Paris'. It would make sense that a studio would have various outfits, make-up and wigs.

We see Joe steal and, if I remember correctly, a part of the pilot that Lynch removed from the film was a scene where the waitress at Winkie's steals a customer's pen. We see 'Betty' sneak into an apartment via a window.

I'm wondering if Diane's second bedroom is set up to look like the bedroom we see at Havenhurst.

There appears to be a lot of stuff on the floor of Diane's bedroom, stuff we can't make out, at the beginning of the film. Right before we see the head fall to the pillow. Is that stuff she's taken from the studios?

User avatar
vicster111
 
Posts: 281
Joined: 26 Oct 2010
Status: Offline

Re: Dinner Party Lies? (Split Topic)

Postby vicster111 » 19 Nov 2010

this all comes from my imagination, without any evidence

Marksman,
To be honest, I don't think there is any concrete evidence of anything in this film. Indirect evidence...maybe. That's the beauty of the thing. I can easily see my 'Dan Selwyn' fitting what I see and I can see your conclusion fitting also. And as you can see I'm still working on other possibilities. That's what makes this movie intriguing for me.

User avatar
vicster111
 
Posts: 281
Joined: 26 Oct 2010
Status: Offline

Re: Dinner Party Lies? (Split Topic)

Postby vicster111 » 19 Nov 2010

I'm thinking that Diane doesn't have an apartment. The apartments we see are part of studio sets. The Sierra Bonita apartment is part of the SNS set where the filming of Sylvia's 1950's or 1960's years takes place.

The bum behind Winkie's? This is representative of what Diane is. Homeless. Living behind the dumpsters at the studio lot. She breaks into various studios and lives out her fantasies and dreams on various sets.

The two men who are always 'on her trail'? Lot security making their rounds. I'm not even sure they know she's there.

Joe? He works at the studio lot as a sweeper/janitor. He feels pity for Diane and gives her access to whatever studio, with a bed, is available so that she can sleep comfortably at night. "It's more comfortable than that couch." "She's letting me stay here. I could never afford a place like this in a million years."

He comes every morning, wakes her up and shoos her out. "Hey, pretty girl. Time to wake up."

While she's in a set at night she takes 'five-finger discounts' on set items. One thing she found was a beautiful, mysterious blue box.

User avatar
vicster111
 
Posts: 281
Joined: 26 Oct 2010
Status: Offline

Re: Dinner Party Lies? (Split Topic)

Postby vicster111 » 19 Nov 2010

Maybe I should summarize. Lol!
Diane (if that is her real name) is a homeless person living on a studio lot behind the dumpsters. She has mental issues. Joe, the janitor for this studio lot, discovers her behind the dumpsters while taking out some trash and takes pity on her. Because he is a janitor he has keys to every set. He allows Diane to sleep on a set, in a bed, every night. He wakes her up every morning, removing her from the set, before anyone arrives and finds her there.

She acts out fantasies while she lives on this lot.


By the way, this solves the mystery of why the trash behind Winkie's doesn't look like restaurant trash. It is because it's studio trash.

User avatar
vicster111
 
Posts: 281
Joined: 26 Oct 2010
Status: Offline

Re: Dinner Party Lies? (Split Topic)

Postby vicster111 » 19 Nov 2010

The reason we see so much of the SNS sets in this film is because production of SNS has been shut down. Therefore, Diane gets to spend endless amounts of time on these sets without worrying about getting caught there. "When my aunt died, she left me some money."
Last edited by vicster111 on 19 Nov 2010, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
marksman
 
Posts: 104
Joined: 26 Oct 2010
Status: Offline

Re: Dinner Party Lies? (Split Topic)

Postby marksman » 19 Nov 2010

<deleted>
Last edited by marksman on 08 Dec 2010, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
vicster111
 
Posts: 281
Joined: 26 Oct 2010
Status: Offline

Re: Dinner Party Lies? (Split Topic)

Postby vicster111 » 20 Nov 2010

Also I want to share a clue that Diane snuck through the studio lot gates. The scene with Rita at Havenhurst when she sneaks through the gates. The gates of Havenhurst look oh so familiar to those gates at the studio, don't they? Once inside the studio lot Diane snuck into a Studio. This is echoed in the scene where Rita sneaks into Ruth's apartment.

When I get some free time I will start a new thread with this idea. And try to provide detail info on how I came to my conclusions. I don't want to sound like I'm inventing things. :)

User avatar
somethingbad
 
Posts: 48
Joined: 20 Nov 2010
Status: Offline

Re: Dinner Party Lies? (Split Topic)

Postby somethingbad » 20 Nov 2010

Great forum -My thoughts on lies at the Dinner party

The dinner party scene begins in a blurry, zoomy way. I think that ties it to the similar effect of Diane stariing at the walll while she is masturbating. In the latter scene it looks like Diane's POV of the wall and she is frustrated because she can't conjure up the mental images she desires(she's maxed out at her bank). This would make the dinner party we see part of a daydream and nothing anyone says at it should be trusted as 100% truthful.

The opening Jitterbug scene also has the zoomy, blurry effect when Diane and the old couple appear and that makes me think that the Jitterbug scene is a happy daydream that feeds the sleeping dream that follows it as well as the unhappy dinner party daydream that follows it.

PreviousNext

Return to Mulholland Dr.

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users

cron